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a different kind of 26B

 
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Jago



Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 3
Location: Jackson, MI

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:35 pm    Post subject: a different kind of 26B Reply with quote

Hello All,
The magical 26B is a tempting creature. The idea of being able to put one in a car drives me nuts.
I have been considering a way to make a 13B into a 26B. Now please let me finish before you start screaming about reposts. The displacement dictates the designation. Why not make a 26B 2-rotor? The rotors could be mounted together, A custom E-Shaft, Add the rotor housings to the block. Custom intake and exhaust manifolds and ignition.
Benefits- 4 sparkplugs per combustion, 2 exhaust ports per side, Less friction than a 4 rotor 26B, significantly shorter block than a 4-rotor design. Easier e-shaft design, much easier assembly too.
A good port-job and turbos could easily fill the intakes. The rotors could be fixed to each other solidly enough.
Constructive thoughts please... Rolling Eyes
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DMRH



Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 5
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: a different kind of 26B Reply with quote

Jago wrote:
Hello All,
The magical 26B is a tempting creature. The idea of being able to put one in a car drives me nuts.
I have been considering a way to make a 13B into a 26B. Now please let me finish before you start screaming about reposts. The displacement dictates the designation. Why not make a 26B 2-rotor? The rotors could be mounted together, A custom E-Shaft, Add the rotor housings to the block. Custom intake and exhaust manifolds and ignition.
Benefits- 4 sparkplugs per combustion, 2 exhaust ports per side, Less friction than a 4 rotor 26B, significantly shorter block than a 4-rotor design. Easier e-shaft design, much easier assembly too.
A good port-job and turbos could easily fill the intakes. The rotors could be fixed to each other solidly enough.
Constructive thoughts please... Rolling Eyes


Unless you could seal the gaps along the like of the two rotor housings joined together this strange engine would have no compression.
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Jago



Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 3
Location: Jackson, MI

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The seals that work so well between the rotor body and the walls of the rotor chamber would work to seal between the joined rotors. They will have equal pressure side to side and against the outside of the housing.
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Spider



Joined: 02 Oct 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:34 am    Post subject: Re: a different kind of 26B Reply with quote

Jago wrote:

Constructive thoughts please...


I like ice cream!
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EVLRX-4



Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Australia, Melbourne

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i dont think it would work.
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Eson



Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 7
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not? Just weld them together, but then you must heat it up so the stress from the welding doesnt tear it apart again. And of course make sure its precise and stuff like that. Then you just need custom apex-seals and an e-shaft, cant be too hard to get. Cool
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Jago



Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 3
Location: Jackson, MI

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Currently a standard e-shaft is being measured and loaded into a CAD file with the needed lengthening of lobes to hold 2 rotors each. I will get some quotes on the custom e-shaft and get an idea on the costs of this little project. The intake and exhaust will need to be widened out to compensate for the extra rotors. I'm looing for some idea of what this thing will do when all four exhaust ports start pushing the turbo? I know the volume being pushed doubles, but will that double the spool rate or cut it in half? The intake requirements are also doubling, need a bigger cooler? double the fuel pump and injector volume. Also with 4 plugs per chamber a larger alternator? What aftermarket ignition would give the best results in this application?
Thanks
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Arawn



Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Bridgeport, Conn

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:04 am    Post subject: Mach 1 Reply with quote

Jago wrote:
A good port-job and turbos could easily fill the intakes. The rotors could be fixed to each other solidly enough.
Constructive thoughts please...


My understanding is that many engines are help back by the Speed of Sound at the Cylinder Intake. Those Wankels go pretty fast.

Calculate the Wind Speed of the Intake Port.

Arawn
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Eson



Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 7
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jago wrote:
I'm looing for some idea of what this thing will do when all four exhaust ports start pushing the turbo? I know the volume being pushed doubles, but will that double the spool rate or cut it in half?


You can always change the lenght of the exhaust-pipes so the result is equal to a normal 13B (26B) rotor size turbo. And i think spool-up time will be reduced because the velocity of the exhaust is the same and the exhaust-mass is doubled. But much depends on the size of the pipes etc.

Arawn: The rotary isnt much faster then a piston-engine, the accually rpm for the rotors are 1.5 times less then then the crank. (9000 / 1.5 = 6000rpm)
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Arawn



Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Bridgeport, Conn

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:54 pm    Post subject: RPM Reply with quote

When you say RPM for the Rotors, do you mean the Journal Shaft, or the Rotor itself? The Rotor pulls three volumes every time it makes a complete rotation.

Dual OverHead Cam DOHC, is all about the windspeed of air going into the cylinder, and this seems an important limitation for any air-breathing engine, let alone the Wankel.

Does a 13B displace 1.3 Litres per rotation of the Journal Shaft? I forget my Sophomore Engineering, by which to convert average speed to maximum, but how large is the corresponding intake area?

6,000 RPM would translate to 11 Rev/Sec. Does that mean rlara is looking for an exhaust pipe of 3 meters?

Arawn
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